Krystle Bartlett joins Dr. Vitz to discuss the EMSO journey she began with her husband Stephen (episode 13) and how it has impacted their relationship, her approach to raising her children, and the example she embodies.
Krystle Bartlett
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Introduction: This is Levelheaded Talk, a podcast centered on achieving emotional sobriety, with Dr. Andrea Vitz. She's the author of “The You You’ve Never Met”, how to stop experiencing pain and chaos in all of your relationships by sobering up emotionally speaking, you can always reach her at levelheadeddoc.com. And now, here's Levelheaded Talk.
Welcome back to level-headed Tom, welcome back. Yeah, we have a spectacular guest. Homeowners coastal one.
Hi guys. Whoa, whoa, you may recognize the last name. You may. Why would you why would we recognize last name.
Well because our previous episode was her husband, Steven. And just to have the two of you in quick succession is very special and I'm positive. If he's coming back, because we're going to capture as much of his journey as we possibly can. He's got a terrific journey and it's inspirational, you know, loves to talk about his emotional sobriety loves to talk about his relationship with you, his relationships with the kids. And we'd love it. Yeah, awesome. So I've just, you know, with, with maybe the first thing we do is just commit you to coming back because your voice is also buttery let's hear that buttery voice How are you, I'm doing good, you know, I, I'm just going through the normal stuff that I do gym, work, family. Yeah, but you so generously share with us. I do, and we'd love that very, very much, and you share things that you struggle with, and you share things that are breakthroughs and you share stories about your kids and your kids, because they're so darn lovable, yeah. And the way that you interact with your husband and the way the two of you together, interact with your kids, it's just great fun to see. And I feel like we relate to those things because I saw you share something recently that I can relate to so much, where your kids needed support, and you needed to just show them support.
Yeah. I mean, what I was going through with the kids, was I was reacting in just a very angry and negative manner, that, that behavior repeated so many times. They felt that if anything came up bad for them that they should just stop it, and not say anything because they didn't want to get there. Exactly, they don't want to get the Wrath of My anger. That's let's Well you tell the story for our listeners. Yeah, so the other day, I, so I've been having some problems with the kids and Pandemic school, and them not completing their assignments. It's been a hard workload for everybody. And so, for this whole year. Every time I would find out that the kids were lying about their schoolwork, I would blow up, and why. Well, yes. So, in emotional sobriety training we asked a lot why. So, I asked crystal, well why would you blow up, because my vision of perfection was being challenged. Your perfection yes, my perfection set your children, not being honest or not doing their schoolwork meant something about you. Yes, which is, which is that I, I am not well, which is, I need to be perfect. Yes, in order, waving, sorry. Why would you be perfect. Well, I, because that's how I want, I want people to be right here, because I have a big, big moments of shame in myself. And so, when I go into that I don't want people to see that. Right, so if you aren't perfect, you're not lovable. So, you in that moment with your children, you recognize that you need to overcome your own childishness. Yes, as a parent, yeah. In order to create a safe person for them to come to. Yes, exactly. And when you're a safe person for them. They don't have to suffer anything and if they don't have stuff anything, they don't become what you became Yeah, which is yelling at their kids about. So, you just completely eliminated. An entire next generation of that.
Yeah. Part of this is cultural. And I really related to this and want to talk about it because I think a lot of people can relate to this
yes, you know we have a lot of us, a lot of immigrant cultures have this standard. Because previous generations had to live with the, I mean, let's face it, there was a lot of, you know unlovable, unworthy, those behaviors in the previous generations I hear stories from my dad very close to my dad and we talk a lot about, You know his upbringing and his upbringing, included a lot of trauma because of the standards at this point set, and my grandparents, by the way, were, were just like everybody else, just like a whole other group. They just didn't have tools like we have now, Right, and they didn't realize the wake, that they would create. When they treated their kids this way by expecting perfection, and it was expected of them, a generation back and all of that. And so now we are we are we are sort of the first generation that is allowing our children to blossom and to not feel the unworthiness, the shame, and it just was. It was so nice to see that you have been through this had identified it. And then, and then you chose your response. That was the response that you chose.
So, when I found out that Luke wasn't doing his work. I recognize it. And I looked at his look on his face, and the luck of embarrassment, and I said hey buddy. It's cool. Show me what it is. Let's figure it out together. And we'll sit down. Brilliant. Right, yeah. Now that creates one imprint that he has to put in his bank of south of trust, Vermont, yes, might take 100 It doesn't matter, you got 100 You got 100 Again you over the next week, probably, yeah, you know, cuz they're going to probably keep doing the same. Yeah, that's the beauty of Canada. Yeah, yeah. and so, I think that's beautiful, I think, you know when our kids are dishonest, it's usually just a learned skill to stay out of trouble, because they're fearing the honesty.
Yes, to stay out of displeasure. Yeah, so your ability to respond by taking the displeasure, out of the equation. And just eliminating that possibility for them so that you could open that up folks so good to see you're well shot. Oh man, just because at a soft spot, I do. I mean, first of all, you know, everybody's got a soft spot for her, she's just, we just want him to be having an opportunity to blossom and we all have those. I hate homework shortcomings or whatever. You know he's going through we've all been through similar things, but just to have him have the opportunity to recognize that mom is okay, it's okay for me to, you know, show my whatever my shortcomings are because mom is going to help.
Yeah. And, oh man, what a what a luxury atmosphere like, you know I think well as an adult or visiting like children, right, if we're acting out if we're reacting, or yelling or if we become dishonest. It's for the same reasons. Our children are doing it, and when you're doing that you recognize this childishness when you came to me on aggression childishness when my kids do this and making this about me, now hard time you know and it's just such a once you see it when you're aware of it just being aware isn't enough. Yeah. You have to figure out the why behind it and then take action in the moment. So, if that means you catch yourself in the behavior or right after the behavior you work it through. Then pretty soon you're, you use that awareness acknowledgement and you catch it during or before. And then you can even go to the place where you recognize it. Even before the event, and you're out you're ready for it. Both the fastest way to Enzo anything is to remove the belief that you have about yourself. That makes you react in the first place. Yeah, with over you are, and I have to be perfect. Right. Can you imagine the notion that crystal violet is another?
brain No, no one cares lovable creature. She is, she's a creature. She's a lovable creature. We love her.
Yeah, it is, it is great to see. It is great to see your journey and we're very fortunate to be able to witness what you guys have, you know your generosity the show.
Tell us more stories, I want to know how long you've been married to Steve. So, me and Steven have been married for 13 years now. Wow. Yeah. And I love that and I'd love you to share with the whole world right now that you did emotional sobriety training together. Yes, so we did emotional sobriety training together as a couple, and it clarified a lot of things within our relationship with each other, you know some of the roadblocks that we've had, when, you know, the arguments come up. That doesn't happen anyone. Oh, and, you know, recognizing my specific behavior of just shutting him out, or shutting anybody out. And that isn't happening. Yeah, so you get to actually be together. Yes, we do after 13 years. Isn't that amazing, it's very amazing.
Wow, unbelievable yeah you guys have. I'm sure a marriage, dynamic that a lot of people can relate to, especially because you've been married for a while, you get you get these patterns and. And then you have your standard reactions, and he has his standard reactions, and all we can hope for as married couples is that those standard reactions, you know, before we get tools to work things out with those standard reactions don't absolutely destroy each other. And people are lucky if they, if they don't. But now, having gone through your emotional sobriety training and haven't started your training together. Whose idea was, so it was his idea first, and you know he said hey there's this wonderful, wonderful opportunity that, you know 10 And you're offering us, you know, would you like to do it. I said tonight. To do this, so nice to have a tool, okay. Amen. Okay. And it just turned into something else for me. Can you tell us, between the two of you, who is typically the one who is emotional anymore? Prior to prior to having tools, okay. Prior to having tools, there's definitely him. Okay, wow. Yeah. So, our listeners who have heard our episode by the time you hear yours. They will surface as well. And so, Steven is the guy who can pick up practically anything in print again anywhere you ask the man whose muscles have muscles. And so, it's not surprising to those of us who know you both of us, the one more emotionally available and usually these things are in conflict situations we all have different learned behaviors. And so, when you would disagree about something.
What would typically happen, like what was the typical path of a disagreement?
oh, I can tell you straight out. Let's go. So, a typical is me, I love to. I used to love to slam doors slam anything, so you can feel my anger. That's the child. Wow. Yeah. And then, and then silent treatment. That was that was in, and I hate saying this now because I realize it. That one was a very easy behavior for me to do is to just give the silent treatment to anybody. And, and the chase. That's what it was, if I'm lovable. True, I am lovable, and I want you to chase me. Well, it's interesting what we do, to be loved. Isn't it the most unattractive things yes, you're so makes no sense to me but emotional availability, I just want to clarify for our listeners because a lot of people think of it as that is somebody who's sensitive, somebody who you know maybe cries a lot and expresses it a lot? It's really suffering, wants to share that that's not emotional availability that's usually attention seeking or marinating in your trauma or your story to me, emotional availability is vulnerability and intimacy and intimacy being into see. And you can't be that unless you're looking person, and I just learned, by the way, intimacy, I think I said this last time too, Because I'm so into it. In DVC, and there's probably people out there, yeah that's been around for years and I'm sure has but it's new to me, I'm real excited in Tunisie so yeah if you don't know what's going on in you. How can you be available, emotionally, for someone else. If you are, if you have a veil over your eyes of this reality from your emotional and sobriety and you're living from an intoxicated identity. You're just in manipulating the picture. You are being dishonest, you are, you know, expressing or saying things energetically using emotional leverage in order to maintain some, some kind of image or whatnot. When you're emotionally available. You're able to open that veil or remove it completely, and say, Oh I'm not angry. I was just embarrassed. Oh, I'm not really present for you. I'm mad at myself for not speaking that expectation or having that expectation so I wanted to clarify the difference because so many people will say, oh you know she's, She's, she's more emotionally available than I am, but that doesn't mean that's not always true, yeah, sometimes just means that they're emotionally belligerent, very different right and just so you can use. Yeah. So, with you and Steve. It's interesting that he's more emotionally available, that I don't you know I think he's probably more emotionally available now than ever. Now that he's up to work right, he can get real on the level but are you now, different in a different place in terms of your emotional availability. Yeah, definitely. You know I was thinking back to my first time taking the course with you, versus this second go around and just the level of clarity that I was able to gain from the second time around and looking at, you know all of your teachings, and the processes and understanding a little bit more. That's what really took off for me, this time around and diving into my own master chart and really being honest with myself with what was there. Now I want to know about when you looked back to your first rounds work. I want to know more asking yes because this happened to me. When you went back, did you have to have a little giggle at what you had written. Yes, I you know there were some things that I looked at, and I was, I was embarrassed when I said that was really my thought process. Yeah, it's not really my motive with that person. Yeah, yeah, you know, but it's a huge thing to write something down and look at it for what it really is. And the things that you hold back the first round. Yes, yeah, it's shocking. It's like oh my god, that's not even close to true. So, you know, each time you sober up a little more. Each time you dig in a little bit more each day, you do the training you sober up more you, it's like a spiral. And then all of a sudden one day you wake up and just, you just have a clarity. You know what I'm talking about. Well, I mean, you know that just, you know, we talked about practice reps Yeah. During the training and things like that and now, these things are just coming to me and I'm looking at them and I'm like, I see you.
I got this. I got it, you're catching the snake, yes. Yeah, there's, there's so much growth in you is absurd. You know I see growth in people all the time. And I'm still shocked when I see
it with your, let's go back to you, your behaviors and have evolved to have your new relationship so he would sell on things you would divulge that he would say, oh yeah, a lot of anger, communicated between the two of you. Yeah. And he was also very careful to say, you know that he would understand that, expressing that anger would create a sphere, and that even, even though you know what you're doing while you're doing it before we get actual tools to deal with this. So, you guys are doing this kind of stuff you shut down, you go silent. You go silent on what he does.
I love you I love you wouldn't mind. So, the last time this happened. He broke the barbecue. Oh, He told us that. Yeah, he told me he smashed that barbecue, to smithereens and the day, it didn't matter. We were just so unemotional sober. It was Luke's kindergarten graduation. That day he devolves that to, uh huh. And you have no, I feel like you've no emotion about it. No, not at all like it just doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. Amazing. God, look at that everyone I mean this is a story I want everyone to recognize this this is a story that this woman could carry till she was a grandmother. Yeah, and still get annoyed and mad and resentful. I told her like a while when your grandfather, broke the barbecue, your dad's birthday.
I could just get a garden graduate. And then somebody's going in you still are mad about that, but because he stopped doing it. Yeah, he took responsibility. No matter how you being that he could have thought made him do it. Was this incident, something that the two of you had to once you obtained some emotional sobriety tools and had some reps under your belt, did you have to go back and revisit that together.
We did, you know, we ended up revisiting some of ours. And I don't want to call it memorable. But, you know, the arguments that really made a memory imprint in terms of, you know how bad it was. This stuff is so great for marriages, it's so great, it gives you a language. It's, you can go back to old resentments like this or this, and this is what was happening for me, I know now. I was filtering through this I experienced this, I be this way, and this was my motive for doing that and then everyone can do that everyone can be vulnerable and honest, and the only time we overcome things that are traumatic, is when we're honest and vulnerable. There is no other way booze isn't going to do it. Eating isn't going to do it. Cheating isn't going to do. You have to face it head on, you got to look at you and only you know, really, because if it's in your life it's your responsibility. You mean that's the biggest thing about what we, what we're doing right now, Emotional sobriety. It's really just, it's free, you within you. Yeah, we'll take your heart. When you fix you, your whole world was fixed for that, yes, nothing anyone does, it doesn't matter. You intuitively know how to handle anything. When you get to a place of clarity that is our truth state as a true essence. Before I took your second round, you know I was going through my moments, and you would always tell me, become unassailable. Now I really understand what that means, right, right, and it doesn't mean that you get it right away, but you can feel it right, you can feel that there's a potential in your future, that you just are unassailable emotionally speaking, especially about the things that don't matter, that would normally set you off. Yes. You know I had a client today who was just really sad and going through a big grieving process and had this circumstance that came up that was really hard and I asked her, is this something, a situation or feeling that you find yourself in, often. She said, Yeah, I do. And so, I want you to recognize that your circumstance might be different, but it's just situationally different, it's still all happening because of you. It's happening because of your trauma. It's happening because of what you believe about yourself because of that trauma, you're filtering the world around you through that trauma, filter, you have an experience of all this pain, that are the same as when you're in that trauma. And you behave in ways childish, defensiveness judgmentalism right, etc., abuse, manipulation, secondary compulsions, eating, drinking, and you behave in these ways, because of these emotions. And so, I want, I want you to understand that very easy component of martial sobriety training as if you are feeling a certain way. And you felt it before. I want you to recognize it and I want you to say, I am aware of feeling this way and I, I acknowledge it, and I choose to change it right now, because if I don't change it right now. I'm going to feel this way for the rest of my life. And I know that because I can just look at my past, X many years. Yeah, but the ends that we felt for our lives up until, you know until we realized what those humans were and how they see ones, and how we were harboring them, and our secrets and our shame, and our resentments not really working in through. That's what I offer the world. That's my mission. My reason for being alive. You know I feel like is to introduce people to themselves. I just don't understand the real you is just like looking at me and I just want you to meet that person, you know, that's, that's a big thing right now in my life because I recently engaged with somebody who I knew when I was a kid, and then we didn't see each other for many decades. And we engaged in social media. And, you know, he, he began to share with me what I'm struggling with. I'm trying to just encourage him to get to that position. And, you know it's going to take work, it's going to take his desire to do the work, you know, hope to continue to work but we will encounter these situations in our lives now that we were our friends struggle with their, you know, the fact that they're not, honestly. And it's tough because we want to encourage and bring them to a place that's a little closer to where we are. Which isn't to say that we're done. Yeah, right. Yeah, but we just feel better, we do we feel better and we feel a little more impervious to the stuff that comes up, normal people in normal life. And I find it interesting that you are able to see the you that most of us will be able to meet before everybody else. I'm not surprised, because I know that you know that you both have described something that you saw and knew that was coming but I didn't. And so, you know this is a, this is one of the greatest gifts I think that we can share with people. But I want to get back to your work with Steven and your relationship stuff because I think the one of the biggest things that gets out of everybody is of course there, their marriage or their relationship with their partner. and having things that we do part of things that we do, and being able to recognize them for what they are, at what point did you start to have revelations where we were like, Okay, here's one big thing that I could, that I can work on what was the big thing, what was the big identifiable like, Oh, that's my biggest, fattest easiest target, yes.
So, it's that the easiest one, was being more understanding and not getting so offended, in that moment. And it's like little stuff like cheese you didn't take out the trash, and I get triggered, you're like, Well, what do you mean I didn't take trash. He would say, yeah, yeah, he would say little things to me, and I would get so offended, like he was attacking me. And I would just, and it was what now I recognize is, you know my snake in the grass is, I would get super red. My throat would close up. I just get so angry, and I want to I want to carry that. Yeah, I can't, I can't help it, you hearing that meant, what about you. It meant that I'm not doing something right, which would mean, I'm not perfect, which would mean that I'm on level. Exactly. Every single argument you've ever had I guarantee, it's just that it comes back to that.
Yeah, that must be what it is you identify with. It is like oh I see, yeah when I think of, you know these things that you just read on my store, and I feel the same way about Steve, I'm like, Steve's you know why was not them. Yeah, that's why it's not in we can see, we can see who you really are. And then when you're triggered. And when you're overloaded with your chemicals.
I, you know, to answer your question before you said, you know, it's like kind of like how do I see the person. Well I only see the person. Right. Their snake will appear, or their version of them their intoxicated identity will appear, but I really, when I'm talking to somebody, I'm only talking to their life, like I'm only talking to the real them. And I, the only way you can get through to them, because I cannot rationalize or reason, with their intoxicated identity they're belligerent, yeah. So, I'm talking to that person that they really also you just eliminate I just hold their snake I just pat it across the face and I go over there. I'm talking to you. I was just talking to Crystal today about, you know, have you ever seen, have you ever had a conversation with your mom or your dad and actually seen them turn into their parents.
Yeah, okay. You just reminded me of, like, kind of what I would see that.
Yeah, so, you know, it might be like, let's say you're sitting with your mom and you're having this great time and then something triggers her, and she might become her mother, and that's how she's learned to that she doesn't become her real mother. She becomes her mother's intoxicate identity, right, so in that moment, it's like, am I here to talk to your mom. Yeah, I'm here to talk to you. Right, and so with crystal if she were to lose her temper or if she were to get irritable or start giving you the silent treatment, I'd say, I'm not here to talk to you that, right, or. I'm not interested to yourself.
Yeah, I want you to hear now with me. We had a great story of this happening. Yeah, actually in the gym, we call it story.
Yeah, so we were doing your squat Saturday, and I was just not making my lifts and I was getting really in my head about it, and you can see the defeated look on my face and I start crying. And here comes Andrew she goes she pulls me to the side, she goes, who are you right now. How old are you right now? And I said I'm 13 years old right now. You could feel it, I could feel it. Yeah. And, you know, I really thought about that, and I got above myself and just took myself out of that place and said okay. Who are you, where are you right now? And, you know, they asked me, okay. Is she going to take the lift again because I'm all emotional and Ted goes, yes, she's taking?
Yes, I'm taking a look together. And I get under the bar. Question, and are crushed because you were no longer 13 Yeah. So, the power of decision, right, and the power of community to witness to you and say that you're not being you right now. Yes. Just really honest Yeah. Crystal back. Yeah, we love this. We love 13-year-old crystal. We love her, and she's wonderful that something happened to that girl. And we'd like her to heal. And we'd like her to let herself become all the way, adult crystal, who is a leader and a mother and a wife, and an athlete, a friend. I mean, all the things right, we get sucked back because it feels normal. It feels comfortable, that it isn't. It's just your normal. Yeah, it doesn't feel good to go back, everybody says, Oh, I felt so good to just not have to train it felt so good to just fall back and eat all that food. It felt so good to just fall back and yell at my partner. It didn't feel that it felt normal.
Yeah. And if normal is what you're tired out to kind of do the work. It's, I find it really funny that you describe all these things that bring up things that I mean, it's not just that I identified my mother or my grandmother. You know I'm not positive I didn't spend enough time with her that I didn't know what her 13-year-old is, but I know when I'm being. So, you know, it's the same kind of thing, when, when I, and I'm not sure I know you know when I'm being my mother's when I'm being my most loving yourself, but I know when I'm. Yes, when I'm being emotional. Because those are those are behaviors that
yeah that's Sheila. Yeah, so it's not like the mom screwed me up, it's like your mom, learned that from her mom and her mom from herbal from her mom and guess what we've got, generation after generation, trauma. Trauma filters, self-beliefs and emotionally triggered behaviors that we now can consolidate through us into one little pocket and fix it ourselves. And when we rid ourselves of it, we clear 1000s of years. Yeah, and we get to, and we get to do. I think there are a lot of people who might think Yeah but that's just how human beings are wired but at some point, human beings, figured out language. Yep. And then made an enormous just gargantuan advancement. Yeah, in humanity and human purpose. At some point we figured out tools. At some point we figured we harnessed fire. And now, you know, whether you, whether you recognize it or not. Let me help you recognize it now we are able to harness. Emotional Sprite. Yes, and it may feel like well, I don't know if our generation is so special, as the one that created fire was created. Yeah, but guess what, we are. I hate to say it, we are in a cycle of advancement from one generation to the next in so many ways, I mean not long ago, human beings created flight, and now we take for granted that we can be on the other side of the continent, and do the same.
So, you can be emotionally sober in the same day to really no different. You know it's not it's, it's just about technology, it's about having the method and the foundation and a formula for doing something. And if you have the desire, you do it. And here's the thing, it's just not that hard. It's not, how would you, let's give it a degree of difficulty so yeah, wouldn't its Stephen decide to do this together. Yeah, and then I'm sure like every other couple, He goes through the first, you kind of fake it a little you write things you don't really and you take turns, and you take turns. Yeah, right, there's your surgeon surgeries and things like that happen, of course we have as reality that, but when it started. Let's talk about that. Was there a, it's like you identified your first exam. Yeah, the two of you together go hey, you don't really where we are. Let's talk about this.
So actually, it ended up being kind of like a, you know, here we are two weeks, Three weeks. How much time has elapsed, we're like, hey, we have an IQ? And it was just a very, you know, freeing thing to say like, Hey, isn't this cool.
Yeah, but we haven't argued for however many weeks, right, here's the thing. There are two rules that are super easy, and people that are not familiar with my work aren't going to like me after I say it, but if you become familiar with my work, you're going to be really grateful. So, one, if you're suffering, you're in self-centeredness, too. If you're arguing, you're in childishness. That's it. Yeah, I can totally agree with that, you can stop as soon as you're suffering, writhing in resentment, angry barrister, fear of something, you are running something through yourself through your memory through your filter of trauma, and it is not real. So, if you are suffering, you're in self-centeredness, if you don't know what self-centeredness is to me get my book, does not mean what you think it is. Now, if you are in the middle of an argument, I don't mind if it's your boss or your romantic partner or your child. You are being a child you are mimicking your child self. Children, yell and argue and scream and cry, because they don't have the skills to communicate, because they don't have access to how they're really feeling, or why they're confused, they barely have their brains developed, you have a developed brain, you don't get the luxury of behaving that way anymore. We have to take responsibility right now; our entertainment is full of it. Yes, that's another thing we watch shows we watch movies that just validate our behaviors. It isn't acceptable anymore.
That's the thing about when couples go through emotional sobriety training together is now you can't watch TV and go, you know, without saying really get your maturity barometers just off the charts. And now nothing resonates with you in the norm.
Right, so that's why they say it's lonely at the top that does not mean emotionally so where people are ahead of you or leveled up or better than it just means that you're on a different channel. So, it's lonely on the other channel, because not as many people have pledged to that channel. And it sounds like such a hard thing, doesn't it sounds so hard to become emotionally sober and it sounds like you have to suffering so badly to be, you know, homeless and total alcoholic, you have to be a drug addict, you have to be a sex addict, you have to be obese because you can't stop eating, or you have everyone in your life has left. Yes, and it just doesn't have to be true. You don't even have to suffer to grow.
Yeah, no, I think that if we look at the inventory, and the three are a lot of people who are going through some really tough things that he's helped out. Yes, but I would say that the predominant population. What we've been able to witness are high performers and seeking higher performance, or just very chronically subtly suffering. Yeah, where they don't quite know why they're suffering right and not willing to accept that that's just how you know how you have to live your life, you know, life's hard, I got to tell you that lifestyle, at heart, is pretty amazing when you don't have a whole bunch of lies, you get to enjoy it turns out; relationships are easy. When you don't have a whole bunch of trauma filters, telling you should be offended. So, you had a couple of weeks, you realize, yeah haven't argued, yeah. What else, what are the growth things that you happen to notice, well within myself.
I mean So Steven works graveyard. And in the mornings Of course someone working graveyard has a tendency to be really tired. And so, you know, sometimes we would chat in the morning, and I'm very much my love languages, you know, I want to be touched and, you know, things like that. And so, when he wouldn't come to that. You know I get upset, before, but now it comes from a place of understanding that, Oh, he's, he's tired.
You know, love that. Yeah, so that's the understanding, you're talking about. So, I also want to pull out love language there. Yes. So many people rely on that as, by means of why they fight with their partner. So, it's, well I want to be touched. I want to be kissed and he just didn't do it, or I want to be this and that and she just didn't do it. And the thing is our love language, although it's really helpful in the moment, to know it. It isn't helpful at all in the long run, because our love languages come from our emotional and sobriety, you're in need and I put that in quotes everyone your need for that attention from him was from your place of on livability. If he comes in, he touches you and hugs and kisses you and tells you he loves you in that moment you feel relief. Yeah, exactly from the belief that you're unlovable Guess how long that lasts. Just that. That's it. And that's how we get stuck in abusive horrible situations because we get a little bit of validation. And then we're constantly seeking validation we're not in a reality. So, you're not needing that anymore, but getting it because he does love you. Naturally, puts you in a position of, oh my god, now I can actually receive the real life. You're not filling a deficit you filled your own deficit by doing the work, and now he's just this awesome dude that you get to marry. Exactly, yeah. And when he's not tired. You'll get it. Yes, yeah. And now since you're already whole and know your phone, no you're lovable. Your husband's just tired. That's the reality. Yeah. And, and you can reach for him and say I love you and give him love and touch him there instead of being mad about your beat how old have you do that 13% Yeah.
Yeah. Did you in the. Sometimes we bring up the exercise inquisitive your child so what age child self-13-14 Yeah, it was 13
Yeah, is the topic one. Yeah, yeah, I talked about early age trauma and emotional sobriety training but it's not always early age, I mean we always have trauma all around our life we see it, we witness it, we have it happened to us, we think it's about us, whatever, it doesn't matter what happened to you or around you. What matters is the belief left. So, for you, your biggest trauma happened to 13 Yes. Now, the most impressionable trauma early trauma, a lot of people think, oh it's just between zero and seven because I think that's the age that are the most imprint happens, but if something more serious happens at 13, or 20, even don't discredit that. It will shape you to brains not formed yet.
Well the first round, you know, I thought, Okay, well, maybe my parents’ divorce is my trauma, but then digging in a little bit deeper in terms of how I feel about the people on my master chart. I got the achiest feeling when it came to my dad. And so, going back to what happened with my dad. That was the traumatic part at 13 is what left me with the feelings of being unlovable, unworthy, which shaped all the arguments again has been, yes from the beginning of time. Yeah. Isn't that amazing. Yeah. Wow. I wanted to ask the question. What was the hardest part for you?
During this training, the hardest part. Honestly, always is always honestly, it's the master chart. The master chart, you know, either you can look at it as this big long thing that you have to do because you have to do each person, well it's not that hard everyone you know and when I started going through my master chart, and realizing that these feelings are the same.
Yes, they're all the same. This is why Ryan is it the same. Anyway, because everything is. It drove from that traumatic experience and that one belief about you know from that one. So, all that once you do have your trauma chart, or your mess your chart. How many of those that you really have to look at. I really just had to look at one. Do I ask people to do as many as they feel weird about, because you get it out, but also to show them at the top? Yes, we're all the same effect. As humans, we are all lovable. We are all worthy and deserving and wonderful beings of love anything other than that is just a self-belief and emotional intoxicated identity that you can change. What was your most profound part like what's the part that changed you the most?
The part that changed me the most is my desire to really improve my interactions with my kids. That was the big one for me, the decision. Yes, the decision. They were your why. Yeah, they were my why. And, but, you know, just looking at everything. Even though originally my kids or my why.
I'm my wife. Yes, I'm my wife, that was the same for me to my daughter was my, my moment where I realized I needed to change was when I was sitting next to my daughter, she might have been 454 and a half, five. And I said, she's going to think like I do. She's going to feel like I do, she's going to do the things that I do.
If I don't change. Do you want your kid to feel the way you used to feel, or believe that things about them that you believe about you, ever? You look at your kids and you love them and you give them everything, because you want them to not feel like you feel, but if you don't change you, they will always feel like you feel you can give you can buy them cars. You can give them an $800,000 wedding. You could tell them you love them every day and how special they aren't getting trophies. It doesn't change the fact that they will feel exactly like you feel, they will act like you act, and they will think like you think. If you don't change.
You you you you. So, you're going over that. Hi, Lynn was also having a lot of trouble with school, and Jesus girl. Yes, all across the board. And these last few weeks after, you know, taking emotional sobriety. Our relationship has improved. Her grades have also improved as well. Really, yes, they have just because of why, because I am more emotionally sober for her. It's allowed her to be more honest with me. Because she's not afraid of how I was going to react, you're going to make John Craig. Yeah, that's happening. Oh, this Caitlin is 11 years old. Yes, and Luke is nine. And I, I just feel so much promise for them, because that's where both me and Steven are in our lives and emotionally, for them, that they're going to be a burden.
But now they're going to be even more. Well, they're also humans Yes, ma'am. What you've said is they're going to be even more as they're going to be allowed to develop in a different way, is they're not going to be starting from a deficit. We're going to our kids are going to be ridiculous yes generation if we get Enzo. Our kids are going to be. I mean talk about evolution.
Yeah. Yeah, and they're going to accomplish this because they're going to be unclouded the clarity that comes with emotional sobriety. It's not just clarity in the moment to moment, It's clarity, of course, in your interactions.
It's clarity and I just know how to handle this. It's clarity, even when you're driving. There's also this amazing uncovering of creation. So for me when I got sober, all of a sudden, you know like three books came out of me, is what it felt like I, you know, all of a sudden I was doing poetry again I was creating courses I was, you know, coaching people like I had all this energy and all this creative energy, right. And it wasn't something that I had before, you know before would be like, kind of like I would do the chores and I would be done. You know, now it's like I'm doing the chores while I'm creating like it's a very different level of live. You know, it's a different animation. Do you notice this too? Oh yeah, totally. Now what are your full-on goals for emotional sobriety or EMSO goals, my episode goals are to become unassailable in all parts of my life.
That's what it is. I'd like to get to your relationship now because you describe the pattern behaviors that you would get if you disagree. Yeah. Now, when did you disagree.
When we disagree, it was talk it out. We have a conversation about it, and no broken barbecue, no, no broken barbecues, there's no slamming of the doors.
Did he Did he seem like a little kid when he was doing that. Oh yeah, did he actually look like one. Yes, he did. Isn't that amazing we tune into that. I mean, this is very quantum but we actually become a different physical being. When we're chemically altered in the same note, if you will, as when your children so you have the same formula that's been brewing in you, since you were a child. When it floods your system, it morphs your body it morphs you into the egg to even looking like your child self. And you can notice that next time you're arguing with your partner. Just look at their face.
How old are they listen to what they're saying? And I want you to imagine them being the age that they are when they were a child. I want you to imagine that and hear what they're saying in a different way. Because if someone's yelling at you, they’re being a child, not, not in a decorating way I mean they're literally their child self. Okay. And so, if your partner has reverted to a childlike space or a childish space. Listen to that guarantee they're echoing that promise. They are screaming. This is what happened.
And you'll have it. Hopefully if you're able to see that. You'll have a response that's a little more in line with helping.
That doesn't mean you need to give up your life to somebody who has emotional religious and isn't willing to get help. Right. But in that moment. You can open your heart up instead of adding to it. Yes, you know, open your heart, if you don't have the skills to help. That's okay. Just you seeing is enough effort.
You can develop the skill, you sure can. So, we happen to know how to help, we know how to help, and we have a supportive. Because we're all doing this together, we all find the solutions yet affect our lives, and we all relate to each other in ways where whenever you describe something when I think of the 10 most recent times that I did that. And it comes. Absolutely, clearly.
Well, now we can, you didn't. Well, yeah, so we have to take responsibility for it. Yes, but you didn't actually that's why you feel embarrassed. You wouldn't feel embarrassed if you did it.
Well, yeah because they wouldn't do it, but it's not. It is an embarrassment. In a way, yeah. Yeah, you're embarrassed to lie yeah, I did, but then you realize, Now I can look back up your standards.
It takes the shame down you really understand it. I mean we get more advanced as we go along in the coursework, but, you know, teaching mercy is the fastest way to become unassailable a lot of people think it's like oh I got to be tough and I got, you know, callous and it's like, no, actually it's the opposite. You have to open heart, and you have to instantly see the other person for their light. Recognize when they're echoing their trauma, understanding where it came from seeing that it's not really that and just love in your unassailable. The only way you become unassailable through love. It's not with a shield. Yeah, it's not with armor salt with a sword. It's only love. Because when you're just love everything goes through you, just, it's easy peasy. It's amusing to me.
Right, absolutely. Because I already. That would be like if Steven said, I want to pick up stuff because, yeah, we're already like, there's got to be a goal that speaks to, because you're communicating something that we all see. You could strive for that. Absolutely. Well, it comes back to my self-beliefs and strengthening myself forward.
So, let me ask you right now. Do you Crystal believe you're unlovable.
No, you don't. This layer has just come on, and it's, it's crazy how, you know, you're going about your day and it's like, why did I make that so hard on myself.
Thank you for saying that I had to drop me. Thank you for saying why you got it girl. You got it.
Well, wonderful, wonderful sweethearts. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for doing this with us.
Thank you for being so generous, and vulnerable and sharing your stories with us. You will experience but you're also in the midst of an experience that we all know we all are trying to capture some of the things. So, that was great. Would you do it again.
Oh yeah, I would love, you know, I Dr Vitz is doing, you know, more stuff in the pipeline, and I'm all in.
I want it all. I love that. Thank you so much everyone for sticking with us, for listening, even if it felt hard. You are not alone. Very lovely.
Welcome back to level-headed Tom, welcome back. Yeah, we have a spectacular guest. Homeowners coastal one.
Hi guys. Whoa, whoa, you may recognize the last name. You may. Why would you why would we recognize last name.
Well because our previous episode was her husband, Steven. And just to have the two of you in quick succession is very special and I'm positive. If he's coming back, because we're going to capture as much of his journey as we possibly can. He's got a terrific journey and it's inspirational, you know, loves to talk about his emotional sobriety loves to talk about his relationship with you, his relationships with the kids. And we'd love it. Yeah, awesome. So I've just, you know, with, with maybe the first thing we do is just commit you to coming back because your voice is also buttery let's hear that buttery voice How are you, I'm doing good, you know, I, I'm just going through the normal stuff that I do gym, work, family. Yeah, but you so generously share with us. I do, and we'd love that very, very much, and you share things that you struggle with, and you share things that are breakthroughs and you share stories about your kids and your kids, because they're so darn lovable, yeah. And the way that you interact with your husband and the way the two of you together, interact with your kids, it's just great fun to see. And I feel like we relate to those things because I saw you share something recently that I can relate to so much, where your kids needed support, and you needed to just show them support.
Yeah. I mean, what I was going through with the kids, was I was reacting in just a very angry and negative manner, that, that behavior repeated so many times. They felt that if anything came up bad for them that they should just stop it, and not say anything because they didn't want to get there. Exactly, they don't want to get the Wrath of My anger. That's let's Well you tell the story for our listeners. Yeah, so the other day, I, so I've been having some problems with the kids and Pandemic school, and them not completing their assignments. It's been a hard workload for everybody. And so, for this whole year. Every time I would find out that the kids were lying about their schoolwork, I would blow up, and why. Well, yes. So, in emotional sobriety training we asked a lot why. So, I asked crystal, well why would you blow up, because my vision of perfection was being challenged. Your perfection yes, my perfection set your children, not being honest or not doing their schoolwork meant something about you. Yes, which is, which is that I, I am not well, which is, I need to be perfect. Yes, in order, waving, sorry. Why would you be perfect. Well, I, because that's how I want, I want people to be right here, because I have a big, big moments of shame in myself. And so, when I go into that I don't want people to see that. Right, so if you aren't perfect, you're not lovable. So, you in that moment with your children, you recognize that you need to overcome your own childishness. Yes, as a parent, yeah. In order to create a safe person for them to come to. Yes, exactly. And when you're a safe person for them. They don't have to suffer anything and if they don't have stuff anything, they don't become what you became Yeah, which is yelling at their kids about. So, you just completely eliminated. An entire next generation of that.
Yeah. Part of this is cultural. And I really related to this and want to talk about it because I think a lot of people can relate to this
yes, you know we have a lot of us, a lot of immigrant cultures have this standard. Because previous generations had to live with the, I mean, let's face it, there was a lot of, you know unlovable, unworthy, those behaviors in the previous generations I hear stories from my dad very close to my dad and we talk a lot about, You know his upbringing and his upbringing, included a lot of trauma because of the standards at this point set, and my grandparents, by the way, were, were just like everybody else, just like a whole other group. They just didn't have tools like we have now, Right, and they didn't realize the wake, that they would create. When they treated their kids this way by expecting perfection, and it was expected of them, a generation back and all of that. And so now we are we are we are sort of the first generation that is allowing our children to blossom and to not feel the unworthiness, the shame, and it just was. It was so nice to see that you have been through this had identified it. And then, and then you chose your response. That was the response that you chose.
So, when I found out that Luke wasn't doing his work. I recognize it. And I looked at his look on his face, and the luck of embarrassment, and I said hey buddy. It's cool. Show me what it is. Let's figure it out together. And we'll sit down. Brilliant. Right, yeah. Now that creates one imprint that he has to put in his bank of south of trust, Vermont, yes, might take 100 It doesn't matter, you got 100 You got 100 Again you over the next week, probably, yeah, you know, cuz they're going to probably keep doing the same. Yeah, that's the beauty of Canada. Yeah, yeah. and so, I think that's beautiful, I think, you know when our kids are dishonest, it's usually just a learned skill to stay out of trouble, because they're fearing the honesty.
Yes, to stay out of displeasure. Yeah, so your ability to respond by taking the displeasure, out of the equation. And just eliminating that possibility for them so that you could open that up folks so good to see you're well shot. Oh man, just because at a soft spot, I do. I mean, first of all, you know, everybody's got a soft spot for her, she's just, we just want him to be having an opportunity to blossom and we all have those. I hate homework shortcomings or whatever. You know he's going through we've all been through similar things, but just to have him have the opportunity to recognize that mom is okay, it's okay for me to, you know, show my whatever my shortcomings are because mom is going to help.
Yeah. And, oh man, what a what a luxury atmosphere like, you know I think well as an adult or visiting like children, right, if we're acting out if we're reacting, or yelling or if we become dishonest. It's for the same reasons. Our children are doing it, and when you're doing that you recognize this childishness when you came to me on aggression childishness when my kids do this and making this about me, now hard time you know and it's just such a once you see it when you're aware of it just being aware isn't enough. Yeah. You have to figure out the why behind it and then take action in the moment. So, if that means you catch yourself in the behavior or right after the behavior you work it through. Then pretty soon you're, you use that awareness acknowledgement and you catch it during or before. And then you can even go to the place where you recognize it. Even before the event, and you're out you're ready for it. Both the fastest way to Enzo anything is to remove the belief that you have about yourself. That makes you react in the first place. Yeah, with over you are, and I have to be perfect. Right. Can you imagine the notion that crystal violet is another?
brain No, no one cares lovable creature. She is, she's a creature. She's a lovable creature. We love her.
Yeah, it is, it is great to see. It is great to see your journey and we're very fortunate to be able to witness what you guys have, you know your generosity the show.
Tell us more stories, I want to know how long you've been married to Steve. So, me and Steven have been married for 13 years now. Wow. Yeah. And I love that and I'd love you to share with the whole world right now that you did emotional sobriety training together. Yes, so we did emotional sobriety training together as a couple, and it clarified a lot of things within our relationship with each other, you know some of the roadblocks that we've had, when, you know, the arguments come up. That doesn't happen anyone. Oh, and, you know, recognizing my specific behavior of just shutting him out, or shutting anybody out. And that isn't happening. Yeah, so you get to actually be together. Yes, we do after 13 years. Isn't that amazing, it's very amazing.
Wow, unbelievable yeah you guys have. I'm sure a marriage, dynamic that a lot of people can relate to, especially because you've been married for a while, you get you get these patterns and. And then you have your standard reactions, and he has his standard reactions, and all we can hope for as married couples is that those standard reactions, you know, before we get tools to work things out with those standard reactions don't absolutely destroy each other. And people are lucky if they, if they don't. But now, having gone through your emotional sobriety training and haven't started your training together. Whose idea was, so it was his idea first, and you know he said hey there's this wonderful, wonderful opportunity that, you know 10 And you're offering us, you know, would you like to do it. I said tonight. To do this, so nice to have a tool, okay. Amen. Okay. And it just turned into something else for me. Can you tell us, between the two of you, who is typically the one who is emotional anymore? Prior to prior to having tools, okay. Prior to having tools, there's definitely him. Okay, wow. Yeah. So, our listeners who have heard our episode by the time you hear yours. They will surface as well. And so, Steven is the guy who can pick up practically anything in print again anywhere you ask the man whose muscles have muscles. And so, it's not surprising to those of us who know you both of us, the one more emotionally available and usually these things are in conflict situations we all have different learned behaviors. And so, when you would disagree about something.
What would typically happen, like what was the typical path of a disagreement?
oh, I can tell you straight out. Let's go. So, a typical is me, I love to. I used to love to slam doors slam anything, so you can feel my anger. That's the child. Wow. Yeah. And then, and then silent treatment. That was that was in, and I hate saying this now because I realize it. That one was a very easy behavior for me to do is to just give the silent treatment to anybody. And, and the chase. That's what it was, if I'm lovable. True, I am lovable, and I want you to chase me. Well, it's interesting what we do, to be loved. Isn't it the most unattractive things yes, you're so makes no sense to me but emotional availability, I just want to clarify for our listeners because a lot of people think of it as that is somebody who's sensitive, somebody who you know maybe cries a lot and expresses it a lot? It's really suffering, wants to share that that's not emotional availability that's usually attention seeking or marinating in your trauma or your story to me, emotional availability is vulnerability and intimacy and intimacy being into see. And you can't be that unless you're looking person, and I just learned, by the way, intimacy, I think I said this last time too, Because I'm so into it. In DVC, and there's probably people out there, yeah that's been around for years and I'm sure has but it's new to me, I'm real excited in Tunisie so yeah if you don't know what's going on in you. How can you be available, emotionally, for someone else. If you are, if you have a veil over your eyes of this reality from your emotional and sobriety and you're living from an intoxicated identity. You're just in manipulating the picture. You are being dishonest, you are, you know, expressing or saying things energetically using emotional leverage in order to maintain some, some kind of image or whatnot. When you're emotionally available. You're able to open that veil or remove it completely, and say, Oh I'm not angry. I was just embarrassed. Oh, I'm not really present for you. I'm mad at myself for not speaking that expectation or having that expectation so I wanted to clarify the difference because so many people will say, oh you know she's, She's, she's more emotionally available than I am, but that doesn't mean that's not always true, yeah, sometimes just means that they're emotionally belligerent, very different right and just so you can use. Yeah. So, with you and Steve. It's interesting that he's more emotionally available, that I don't you know I think he's probably more emotionally available now than ever. Now that he's up to work right, he can get real on the level but are you now, different in a different place in terms of your emotional availability. Yeah, definitely. You know I was thinking back to my first time taking the course with you, versus this second go around and just the level of clarity that I was able to gain from the second time around and looking at, you know all of your teachings, and the processes and understanding a little bit more. That's what really took off for me, this time around and diving into my own master chart and really being honest with myself with what was there. Now I want to know about when you looked back to your first rounds work. I want to know more asking yes because this happened to me. When you went back, did you have to have a little giggle at what you had written. Yes, I you know there were some things that I looked at, and I was, I was embarrassed when I said that was really my thought process. Yeah, it's not really my motive with that person. Yeah, yeah, you know, but it's a huge thing to write something down and look at it for what it really is. And the things that you hold back the first round. Yes, yeah, it's shocking. It's like oh my god, that's not even close to true. So, you know, each time you sober up a little more. Each time you dig in a little bit more each day, you do the training you sober up more you, it's like a spiral. And then all of a sudden one day you wake up and just, you just have a clarity. You know what I'm talking about. Well, I mean, you know that just, you know, we talked about practice reps Yeah. During the training and things like that and now, these things are just coming to me and I'm looking at them and I'm like, I see you.
I got this. I got it, you're catching the snake, yes. Yeah, there's, there's so much growth in you is absurd. You know I see growth in people all the time. And I'm still shocked when I see
it with your, let's go back to you, your behaviors and have evolved to have your new relationship so he would sell on things you would divulge that he would say, oh yeah, a lot of anger, communicated between the two of you. Yeah. And he was also very careful to say, you know that he would understand that, expressing that anger would create a sphere, and that even, even though you know what you're doing while you're doing it before we get actual tools to deal with this. So, you guys are doing this kind of stuff you shut down, you go silent. You go silent on what he does.
I love you I love you wouldn't mind. So, the last time this happened. He broke the barbecue. Oh, He told us that. Yeah, he told me he smashed that barbecue, to smithereens and the day, it didn't matter. We were just so unemotional sober. It was Luke's kindergarten graduation. That day he devolves that to, uh huh. And you have no, I feel like you've no emotion about it. No, not at all like it just doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. Amazing. God, look at that everyone I mean this is a story I want everyone to recognize this this is a story that this woman could carry till she was a grandmother. Yeah, and still get annoyed and mad and resentful. I told her like a while when your grandfather, broke the barbecue, your dad's birthday.
I could just get a garden graduate. And then somebody's going in you still are mad about that, but because he stopped doing it. Yeah, he took responsibility. No matter how you being that he could have thought made him do it. Was this incident, something that the two of you had to once you obtained some emotional sobriety tools and had some reps under your belt, did you have to go back and revisit that together.
We did, you know, we ended up revisiting some of ours. And I don't want to call it memorable. But, you know, the arguments that really made a memory imprint in terms of, you know how bad it was. This stuff is so great for marriages, it's so great, it gives you a language. It's, you can go back to old resentments like this or this, and this is what was happening for me, I know now. I was filtering through this I experienced this, I be this way, and this was my motive for doing that and then everyone can do that everyone can be vulnerable and honest, and the only time we overcome things that are traumatic, is when we're honest and vulnerable. There is no other way booze isn't going to do it. Eating isn't going to do it. Cheating isn't going to do. You have to face it head on, you got to look at you and only you know, really, because if it's in your life it's your responsibility. You mean that's the biggest thing about what we, what we're doing right now, Emotional sobriety. It's really just, it's free, you within you. Yeah, we'll take your heart. When you fix you, your whole world was fixed for that, yes, nothing anyone does, it doesn't matter. You intuitively know how to handle anything. When you get to a place of clarity that is our truth state as a true essence. Before I took your second round, you know I was going through my moments, and you would always tell me, become unassailable. Now I really understand what that means, right, right, and it doesn't mean that you get it right away, but you can feel it right, you can feel that there's a potential in your future, that you just are unassailable emotionally speaking, especially about the things that don't matter, that would normally set you off. Yes. You know I had a client today who was just really sad and going through a big grieving process and had this circumstance that came up that was really hard and I asked her, is this something, a situation or feeling that you find yourself in, often. She said, Yeah, I do. And so, I want you to recognize that your circumstance might be different, but it's just situationally different, it's still all happening because of you. It's happening because of your trauma. It's happening because of what you believe about yourself because of that trauma, you're filtering the world around you through that trauma, filter, you have an experience of all this pain, that are the same as when you're in that trauma. And you behave in ways childish, defensiveness judgmentalism right, etc., abuse, manipulation, secondary compulsions, eating, drinking, and you behave in these ways, because of these emotions. And so, I want, I want you to understand that very easy component of martial sobriety training as if you are feeling a certain way. And you felt it before. I want you to recognize it and I want you to say, I am aware of feeling this way and I, I acknowledge it, and I choose to change it right now, because if I don't change it right now. I'm going to feel this way for the rest of my life. And I know that because I can just look at my past, X many years. Yeah, but the ends that we felt for our lives up until, you know until we realized what those humans were and how they see ones, and how we were harboring them, and our secrets and our shame, and our resentments not really working in through. That's what I offer the world. That's my mission. My reason for being alive. You know I feel like is to introduce people to themselves. I just don't understand the real you is just like looking at me and I just want you to meet that person, you know, that's, that's a big thing right now in my life because I recently engaged with somebody who I knew when I was a kid, and then we didn't see each other for many decades. And we engaged in social media. And, you know, he, he began to share with me what I'm struggling with. I'm trying to just encourage him to get to that position. And, you know it's going to take work, it's going to take his desire to do the work, you know, hope to continue to work but we will encounter these situations in our lives now that we were our friends struggle with their, you know, the fact that they're not, honestly. And it's tough because we want to encourage and bring them to a place that's a little closer to where we are. Which isn't to say that we're done. Yeah, right. Yeah, but we just feel better, we do we feel better and we feel a little more impervious to the stuff that comes up, normal people in normal life. And I find it interesting that you are able to see the you that most of us will be able to meet before everybody else. I'm not surprised, because I know that you know that you both have described something that you saw and knew that was coming but I didn't. And so, you know this is a, this is one of the greatest gifts I think that we can share with people. But I want to get back to your work with Steven and your relationship stuff because I think the one of the biggest things that gets out of everybody is of course there, their marriage or their relationship with their partner. and having things that we do part of things that we do, and being able to recognize them for what they are, at what point did you start to have revelations where we were like, Okay, here's one big thing that I could, that I can work on what was the big thing, what was the big identifiable like, Oh, that's my biggest, fattest easiest target, yes.
So, it's that the easiest one, was being more understanding and not getting so offended, in that moment. And it's like little stuff like cheese you didn't take out the trash, and I get triggered, you're like, Well, what do you mean I didn't take trash. He would say, yeah, yeah, he would say little things to me, and I would get so offended, like he was attacking me. And I would just, and it was what now I recognize is, you know my snake in the grass is, I would get super red. My throat would close up. I just get so angry, and I want to I want to carry that. Yeah, I can't, I can't help it, you hearing that meant, what about you. It meant that I'm not doing something right, which would mean, I'm not perfect, which would mean that I'm on level. Exactly. Every single argument you've ever had I guarantee, it's just that it comes back to that.
Yeah, that must be what it is you identify with. It is like oh I see, yeah when I think of, you know these things that you just read on my store, and I feel the same way about Steve, I'm like, Steve's you know why was not them. Yeah, that's why it's not in we can see, we can see who you really are. And then when you're triggered. And when you're overloaded with your chemicals.
I, you know, to answer your question before you said, you know, it's like kind of like how do I see the person. Well I only see the person. Right. Their snake will appear, or their version of them their intoxicated identity will appear, but I really, when I'm talking to somebody, I'm only talking to their life, like I'm only talking to the real them. And I, the only way you can get through to them, because I cannot rationalize or reason, with their intoxicated identity they're belligerent, yeah. So, I'm talking to that person that they really also you just eliminate I just hold their snake I just pat it across the face and I go over there. I'm talking to you. I was just talking to Crystal today about, you know, have you ever seen, have you ever had a conversation with your mom or your dad and actually seen them turn into their parents.
Yeah, okay. You just reminded me of, like, kind of what I would see that.
Yeah, so, you know, it might be like, let's say you're sitting with your mom and you're having this great time and then something triggers her, and she might become her mother, and that's how she's learned to that she doesn't become her real mother. She becomes her mother's intoxicate identity, right, so in that moment, it's like, am I here to talk to your mom. Yeah, I'm here to talk to you. Right, and so with crystal if she were to lose her temper or if she were to get irritable or start giving you the silent treatment, I'd say, I'm not here to talk to you that, right, or. I'm not interested to yourself.
Yeah, I want you to hear now with me. We had a great story of this happening. Yeah, actually in the gym, we call it story.
Yeah, so we were doing your squat Saturday, and I was just not making my lifts and I was getting really in my head about it, and you can see the defeated look on my face and I start crying. And here comes Andrew she goes she pulls me to the side, she goes, who are you right now. How old are you right now? And I said I'm 13 years old right now. You could feel it, I could feel it. Yeah. And, you know, I really thought about that, and I got above myself and just took myself out of that place and said okay. Who are you, where are you right now? And, you know, they asked me, okay. Is she going to take the lift again because I'm all emotional and Ted goes, yes, she's taking?
Yes, I'm taking a look together. And I get under the bar. Question, and are crushed because you were no longer 13 Yeah. So, the power of decision, right, and the power of community to witness to you and say that you're not being you right now. Yes. Just really honest Yeah. Crystal back. Yeah, we love this. We love 13-year-old crystal. We love her, and she's wonderful that something happened to that girl. And we'd like her to heal. And we'd like her to let herself become all the way, adult crystal, who is a leader and a mother and a wife, and an athlete, a friend. I mean, all the things right, we get sucked back because it feels normal. It feels comfortable, that it isn't. It's just your normal. Yeah, it doesn't feel good to go back, everybody says, Oh, I felt so good to just not have to train it felt so good to just fall back and eat all that food. It felt so good to just fall back and yell at my partner. It didn't feel that it felt normal.
Yeah. And if normal is what you're tired out to kind of do the work. It's, I find it really funny that you describe all these things that bring up things that I mean, it's not just that I identified my mother or my grandmother. You know I'm not positive I didn't spend enough time with her that I didn't know what her 13-year-old is, but I know when I'm being. So, you know, it's the same kind of thing, when, when I, and I'm not sure I know you know when I'm being my mother's when I'm being my most loving yourself, but I know when I'm. Yes, when I'm being emotional. Because those are those are behaviors that
yeah that's Sheila. Yeah, so it's not like the mom screwed me up, it's like your mom, learned that from her mom and her mom from herbal from her mom and guess what we've got, generation after generation, trauma. Trauma filters, self-beliefs and emotionally triggered behaviors that we now can consolidate through us into one little pocket and fix it ourselves. And when we rid ourselves of it, we clear 1000s of years. Yeah, and we get to, and we get to do. I think there are a lot of people who might think Yeah but that's just how human beings are wired but at some point, human beings, figured out language. Yep. And then made an enormous just gargantuan advancement. Yeah, in humanity and human purpose. At some point we figured out tools. At some point we figured we harnessed fire. And now, you know, whether you, whether you recognize it or not. Let me help you recognize it now we are able to harness. Emotional Sprite. Yes, and it may feel like well, I don't know if our generation is so special, as the one that created fire was created. Yeah, but guess what, we are. I hate to say it, we are in a cycle of advancement from one generation to the next in so many ways, I mean not long ago, human beings created flight, and now we take for granted that we can be on the other side of the continent, and do the same.
So, you can be emotionally sober in the same day to really no different. You know it's not it's, it's just about technology, it's about having the method and the foundation and a formula for doing something. And if you have the desire, you do it. And here's the thing, it's just not that hard. It's not, how would you, let's give it a degree of difficulty so yeah, wouldn't its Stephen decide to do this together. Yeah, and then I'm sure like every other couple, He goes through the first, you kind of fake it a little you write things you don't really and you take turns, and you take turns. Yeah, right, there's your surgeon surgeries and things like that happen, of course we have as reality that, but when it started. Let's talk about that. Was there a, it's like you identified your first exam. Yeah, the two of you together go hey, you don't really where we are. Let's talk about this.
So actually, it ended up being kind of like a, you know, here we are two weeks, Three weeks. How much time has elapsed, we're like, hey, we have an IQ? And it was just a very, you know, freeing thing to say like, Hey, isn't this cool.
Yeah, but we haven't argued for however many weeks, right, here's the thing. There are two rules that are super easy, and people that are not familiar with my work aren't going to like me after I say it, but if you become familiar with my work, you're going to be really grateful. So, one, if you're suffering, you're in self-centeredness, too. If you're arguing, you're in childishness. That's it. Yeah, I can totally agree with that, you can stop as soon as you're suffering, writhing in resentment, angry barrister, fear of something, you are running something through yourself through your memory through your filter of trauma, and it is not real. So, if you are suffering, you're in self-centeredness, if you don't know what self-centeredness is to me get my book, does not mean what you think it is. Now, if you are in the middle of an argument, I don't mind if it's your boss or your romantic partner or your child. You are being a child you are mimicking your child self. Children, yell and argue and scream and cry, because they don't have the skills to communicate, because they don't have access to how they're really feeling, or why they're confused, they barely have their brains developed, you have a developed brain, you don't get the luxury of behaving that way anymore. We have to take responsibility right now; our entertainment is full of it. Yes, that's another thing we watch shows we watch movies that just validate our behaviors. It isn't acceptable anymore.
That's the thing about when couples go through emotional sobriety training together is now you can't watch TV and go, you know, without saying really get your maturity barometers just off the charts. And now nothing resonates with you in the norm.
Right, so that's why they say it's lonely at the top that does not mean emotionally so where people are ahead of you or leveled up or better than it just means that you're on a different channel. So, it's lonely on the other channel, because not as many people have pledged to that channel. And it sounds like such a hard thing, doesn't it sounds so hard to become emotionally sober and it sounds like you have to suffering so badly to be, you know, homeless and total alcoholic, you have to be a drug addict, you have to be a sex addict, you have to be obese because you can't stop eating, or you have everyone in your life has left. Yes, and it just doesn't have to be true. You don't even have to suffer to grow.
Yeah, no, I think that if we look at the inventory, and the three are a lot of people who are going through some really tough things that he's helped out. Yes, but I would say that the predominant population. What we've been able to witness are high performers and seeking higher performance, or just very chronically subtly suffering. Yeah, where they don't quite know why they're suffering right and not willing to accept that that's just how you know how you have to live your life, you know, life's hard, I got to tell you that lifestyle, at heart, is pretty amazing when you don't have a whole bunch of lies, you get to enjoy it turns out; relationships are easy. When you don't have a whole bunch of trauma filters, telling you should be offended. So, you had a couple of weeks, you realize, yeah haven't argued, yeah. What else, what are the growth things that you happen to notice, well within myself.
I mean So Steven works graveyard. And in the mornings Of course someone working graveyard has a tendency to be really tired. And so, you know, sometimes we would chat in the morning, and I'm very much my love languages, you know, I want to be touched and, you know, things like that. And so, when he wouldn't come to that. You know I get upset, before, but now it comes from a place of understanding that, Oh, he's, he's tired.
You know, love that. Yeah, so that's the understanding, you're talking about. So, I also want to pull out love language there. Yes. So many people rely on that as, by means of why they fight with their partner. So, it's, well I want to be touched. I want to be kissed and he just didn't do it, or I want to be this and that and she just didn't do it. And the thing is our love language, although it's really helpful in the moment, to know it. It isn't helpful at all in the long run, because our love languages come from our emotional and sobriety, you're in need and I put that in quotes everyone your need for that attention from him was from your place of on livability. If he comes in, he touches you and hugs and kisses you and tells you he loves you in that moment you feel relief. Yeah, exactly from the belief that you're unlovable Guess how long that lasts. Just that. That's it. And that's how we get stuck in abusive horrible situations because we get a little bit of validation. And then we're constantly seeking validation we're not in a reality. So, you're not needing that anymore, but getting it because he does love you. Naturally, puts you in a position of, oh my god, now I can actually receive the real life. You're not filling a deficit you filled your own deficit by doing the work, and now he's just this awesome dude that you get to marry. Exactly, yeah. And when he's not tired. You'll get it. Yes, yeah. And now since you're already whole and know your phone, no you're lovable. Your husband's just tired. That's the reality. Yeah. And, and you can reach for him and say I love you and give him love and touch him there instead of being mad about your beat how old have you do that 13% Yeah.
Yeah. Did you in the. Sometimes we bring up the exercise inquisitive your child so what age child self-13-14 Yeah, it was 13
Yeah, is the topic one. Yeah, yeah, I talked about early age trauma and emotional sobriety training but it's not always early age, I mean we always have trauma all around our life we see it, we witness it, we have it happened to us, we think it's about us, whatever, it doesn't matter what happened to you or around you. What matters is the belief left. So, for you, your biggest trauma happened to 13 Yes. Now, the most impressionable trauma early trauma, a lot of people think, oh it's just between zero and seven because I think that's the age that are the most imprint happens, but if something more serious happens at 13, or 20, even don't discredit that. It will shape you to brains not formed yet.
Well the first round, you know, I thought, Okay, well, maybe my parents’ divorce is my trauma, but then digging in a little bit deeper in terms of how I feel about the people on my master chart. I got the achiest feeling when it came to my dad. And so, going back to what happened with my dad. That was the traumatic part at 13 is what left me with the feelings of being unlovable, unworthy, which shaped all the arguments again has been, yes from the beginning of time. Yeah. Isn't that amazing. Yeah. Wow. I wanted to ask the question. What was the hardest part for you?
During this training, the hardest part. Honestly, always is always honestly, it's the master chart. The master chart, you know, either you can look at it as this big long thing that you have to do because you have to do each person, well it's not that hard everyone you know and when I started going through my master chart, and realizing that these feelings are the same.
Yes, they're all the same. This is why Ryan is it the same. Anyway, because everything is. It drove from that traumatic experience and that one belief about you know from that one. So, all that once you do have your trauma chart, or your mess your chart. How many of those that you really have to look at. I really just had to look at one. Do I ask people to do as many as they feel weird about, because you get it out, but also to show them at the top? Yes, we're all the same effect. As humans, we are all lovable. We are all worthy and deserving and wonderful beings of love anything other than that is just a self-belief and emotional intoxicated identity that you can change. What was your most profound part like what's the part that changed you the most?
The part that changed me the most is my desire to really improve my interactions with my kids. That was the big one for me, the decision. Yes, the decision. They were your why. Yeah, they were my why. And, but, you know, just looking at everything. Even though originally my kids or my why.
I'm my wife. Yes, I'm my wife, that was the same for me to my daughter was my, my moment where I realized I needed to change was when I was sitting next to my daughter, she might have been 454 and a half, five. And I said, she's going to think like I do. She's going to feel like I do, she's going to do the things that I do.
If I don't change. Do you want your kid to feel the way you used to feel, or believe that things about them that you believe about you, ever? You look at your kids and you love them and you give them everything, because you want them to not feel like you feel, but if you don't change you, they will always feel like you feel you can give you can buy them cars. You can give them an $800,000 wedding. You could tell them you love them every day and how special they aren't getting trophies. It doesn't change the fact that they will feel exactly like you feel, they will act like you act, and they will think like you think. If you don't change.
You you you you. So, you're going over that. Hi, Lynn was also having a lot of trouble with school, and Jesus girl. Yes, all across the board. And these last few weeks after, you know, taking emotional sobriety. Our relationship has improved. Her grades have also improved as well. Really, yes, they have just because of why, because I am more emotionally sober for her. It's allowed her to be more honest with me. Because she's not afraid of how I was going to react, you're going to make John Craig. Yeah, that's happening. Oh, this Caitlin is 11 years old. Yes, and Luke is nine. And I, I just feel so much promise for them, because that's where both me and Steven are in our lives and emotionally, for them, that they're going to be a burden.
But now they're going to be even more. Well, they're also humans Yes, ma'am. What you've said is they're going to be even more as they're going to be allowed to develop in a different way, is they're not going to be starting from a deficit. We're going to our kids are going to be ridiculous yes generation if we get Enzo. Our kids are going to be. I mean talk about evolution.
Yeah. Yeah, and they're going to accomplish this because they're going to be unclouded the clarity that comes with emotional sobriety. It's not just clarity in the moment to moment, It's clarity, of course, in your interactions.
It's clarity and I just know how to handle this. It's clarity, even when you're driving. There's also this amazing uncovering of creation. So for me when I got sober, all of a sudden, you know like three books came out of me, is what it felt like I, you know, all of a sudden I was doing poetry again I was creating courses I was, you know, coaching people like I had all this energy and all this creative energy, right. And it wasn't something that I had before, you know before would be like, kind of like I would do the chores and I would be done. You know, now it's like I'm doing the chores while I'm creating like it's a very different level of live. You know, it's a different animation. Do you notice this too? Oh yeah, totally. Now what are your full-on goals for emotional sobriety or EMSO goals, my episode goals are to become unassailable in all parts of my life.
That's what it is. I'd like to get to your relationship now because you describe the pattern behaviors that you would get if you disagree. Yeah. Now, when did you disagree.
When we disagree, it was talk it out. We have a conversation about it, and no broken barbecue, no, no broken barbecues, there's no slamming of the doors.
Did he Did he seem like a little kid when he was doing that. Oh yeah, did he actually look like one. Yes, he did. Isn't that amazing we tune into that. I mean, this is very quantum but we actually become a different physical being. When we're chemically altered in the same note, if you will, as when your children so you have the same formula that's been brewing in you, since you were a child. When it floods your system, it morphs your body it morphs you into the egg to even looking like your child self. And you can notice that next time you're arguing with your partner. Just look at their face.
How old are they listen to what they're saying? And I want you to imagine them being the age that they are when they were a child. I want you to imagine that and hear what they're saying in a different way. Because if someone's yelling at you, they’re being a child, not, not in a decorating way I mean they're literally their child self. Okay. And so, if your partner has reverted to a childlike space or a childish space. Listen to that guarantee they're echoing that promise. They are screaming. This is what happened.
And you'll have it. Hopefully if you're able to see that. You'll have a response that's a little more in line with helping.
That doesn't mean you need to give up your life to somebody who has emotional religious and isn't willing to get help. Right. But in that moment. You can open your heart up instead of adding to it. Yes, you know, open your heart, if you don't have the skills to help. That's okay. Just you seeing is enough effort.
You can develop the skill, you sure can. So, we happen to know how to help, we know how to help, and we have a supportive. Because we're all doing this together, we all find the solutions yet affect our lives, and we all relate to each other in ways where whenever you describe something when I think of the 10 most recent times that I did that. And it comes. Absolutely, clearly.
Well, now we can, you didn't. Well, yeah, so we have to take responsibility for it. Yes, but you didn't actually that's why you feel embarrassed. You wouldn't feel embarrassed if you did it.
Well, yeah because they wouldn't do it, but it's not. It is an embarrassment. In a way, yeah. Yeah, you're embarrassed to lie yeah, I did, but then you realize, Now I can look back up your standards.
It takes the shame down you really understand it. I mean we get more advanced as we go along in the coursework, but, you know, teaching mercy is the fastest way to become unassailable a lot of people think it's like oh I got to be tough and I got, you know, callous and it's like, no, actually it's the opposite. You have to open heart, and you have to instantly see the other person for their light. Recognize when they're echoing their trauma, understanding where it came from seeing that it's not really that and just love in your unassailable. The only way you become unassailable through love. It's not with a shield. Yeah, it's not with armor salt with a sword. It's only love. Because when you're just love everything goes through you, just, it's easy peasy. It's amusing to me.
Right, absolutely. Because I already. That would be like if Steven said, I want to pick up stuff because, yeah, we're already like, there's got to be a goal that speaks to, because you're communicating something that we all see. You could strive for that. Absolutely. Well, it comes back to my self-beliefs and strengthening myself forward.
So, let me ask you right now. Do you Crystal believe you're unlovable.
No, you don't. This layer has just come on, and it's, it's crazy how, you know, you're going about your day and it's like, why did I make that so hard on myself.
Thank you for saying that I had to drop me. Thank you for saying why you got it girl. You got it.
Well, wonderful, wonderful sweethearts. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for doing this with us.
Thank you for being so generous, and vulnerable and sharing your stories with us. You will experience but you're also in the midst of an experience that we all know we all are trying to capture some of the things. So, that was great. Would you do it again.
Oh yeah, I would love, you know, I Dr Vitz is doing, you know, more stuff in the pipeline, and I'm all in.
I want it all. I love that. Thank you so much everyone for sticking with us, for listening, even if it felt hard. You are not alone. Very lovely.
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